After all the buzz about Clinton’s vegan diet, Wolf Blitzer invited two of the doctors Clinton mentioned to describe this “miracle diet” in more detail.
(They’re totally stealing my thunder on my upcoming post about heart disease, but I have a feeling you’ll trust them more than you’ll trust me, so I’m cool with that.)
Watch the clip below – [The first 2 minutes is a recap of the original Clinton interview, so you may want to fast forward to 2:00.]
Transcript for those who can’t view the video [The first 2 minutes are a recap of the original Clinton interview, so starting at 2:00]:
*I bolded a few things and even put Dr. Ornish’s last thoughts in red because I thought they were so spot-on!
Blitzer: With the doctors behind the diet that helped Mr. Clinton change his life, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn is the author of Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, and Dr.Dean Ornish is the author of The Spectrum. Let me go to Dr. Esselstyn first. He mentioned both of you for inspiring him to begin this diet. Walk us through this diet, Dr. Esselstyn. Why is this diet so good, especially for those individuals who have a history of heart disease.
Esselstyn: Well thank you, Wolf, for having me on this evening with my good friend Dean Ornish. There’s no question that if the truth were known that coronary artery disease is a toothless paper tiger that need never exist. And if it does exist, it need never, ever progress.
What we’ve heard from President Clinton is the remarkable change that he’s been willing to make, to remove completely from his nutrition, those foods that which we know will devastate and injure the inner lining of your arteries.
And the remarkable thing is the capacity the body has to heal itself. And when you do what President Clinton has done, when you completely try to remove any foods that are going to injure your vessel, the body has this remarkable capacity to begin to heal itself.
And I’m afraid that as a medical profession, we perhaps have fallen down and really emphasized too much the drugs and the procedures and the operations, which really treat the symptoms – they do not treat the causation of this illness. This is one of the few times since [epocrates(?)] that we have not told patients about the causation of their illness.
Blitzer: Dr. Ornish, are you on the exact same page as Dr. Esselstyn is?
Ornish: Yes I am. And I wanted to say that I love and respect President Clinton and so I was thrilled to hear that he’s making these changes because I want him to live a long time, like so many people do. And whatever your politics, he can inspire many people to make these changes.
And what we’ve shown – you know, we tend to think it has to be a new drug or a new laser, or something really high-tech and expensive to be powerful – and what we’ve done in more than 33 years of research is show that the simple change that we make in our life, like what we eat, how we respond to stress, how much exercise we get, and how much love and support we have, can actually begin to reverse - not just prevent but actually reverse - chronic illnesses like heart disease and so on.
And so we found that almost more than 82% of the people who made these changes, as President Clinton indicated, were actually able to reverse the disease. So rather than getting a quick fix like a bypass or a stint does, which doesn’t treat the underlying cause. It’s a little like mopping up the floor around a spill, without turning off the faucet, it keeps coming back unless you change what caused it.
Blitzer: Is this diet, Dr. Esselstyn – no dairy, no meat, no chicken, basically no fish – is this diet for everyone or only for those who have heart disease or a history of heart disease?
Esselstyn: One other thing I would add, and no oils. No processed oils.
Blitzer: What, like olive oil? Even olive oil, which is supposedly pretty healthy.
Esselstyn: I’m afraid I’m gonna have a divergence of opinion there. Yes, I would include absolutely olive oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil, corn oil, soybean oil, they’re out.
Now, you know, since we know that these foods are injuring people, why would we ever want to have them on the menu of our schoolchildren? Why wait until people do have heart disease?
We know, for instance, that if we didn’t do autopsies on our GIs that died in Korea and Vietnam, that roughly 80% of these young GIs will already have gross evidence of coronary disease, you can already see without a microscope.
If we are ever going to make a breakthrough in this epidemic of cardiac disease, we really have to start when it’s young.
Blitzer: So you’re saying that young kids should not drink milk? Is that what you’re saying, Dr. Ornish?
Ornish: No, I’m not. I’m saying that there’s a spectrum of choices. And what President Clinton is doing is what you might call the Pound of Cure. If you’re trying to reverse a chronic disease, like heart disease – we also show that these same changes can stop, reverse the progression of early prostate cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol- then you need to make bigger changes. But if you’re just trying to lose a few pounds or get your cholesterol down, you can start by making moderate changes, and if that’s enough, great, and if not, you can do more. What matters most is your overall way of eating and living, so if you indulge yourself one day, eat healthier the next.
Blitzer: Dr. Esselstyn, is this the diet that you personally live on?
Esselstyn: The one that I described earlier, yes I most certainly do. My dad had his first heart attack at age 43 and I’ve been eating this way for over 26 years.
Blitzer: And Dr. Ornish, is that they way you live? No chicken, no meat, no dairy, no uh uh, I guess some of the fun things in life – is that what I’m hearing you say? [chuckles]
Ornish: You know, the old joke is, am I gonna live longer or is it just gonna seem longer if I eat this way. It’s not all or nothing. What you include in your diet is just as important as what you exclude. There are hundreds of thousands of protective substances. I also recommend people take 3 or 4 grams a day of fish oil because the omega-3 fatty acids can be so protective.
Blitzer: We heard Dr. Essestyn say ‘no oil.’
Onrish: Well, we slightly different opinion on that particular one. Studies have shown that just 3 or 4 grams a day of fish oil can reduce your incidence of sudden cardiac death by up to 80%. It can reduce your risk of prostate and breast cancer. If you’re a pregnant woman or are breastfeeding, it can raise your child’s IQ. And so I think the evidence there is pretty compelling.
Blitzer: I take fish oil, Dr. Esselstyn. Is that a bad idea?
Esselstyn: Well I’m not gonna really wrestle with Dean over fish oil. We have so much that is in common and we’re striving together to really make the basic point here. By eating these whole foods, and getting away from processed foods, getting away from really the dairy, anything with a mother, anything with a face, meat, fish, and chicken.
It’s really, it’s so incredible how powerful the body can be. And if we’re going to have a seismic revolution of health in this country, which is really right at our fingertips, the major behavior that has to change is, interestingly enough, our food. That is the absolutely key card. It trumps everything.
Ornish: I agree. And let me just say this, when you make these changes, because these mechanisms are so dynamic, your brain gets more blood, you think more clearly, you have more energy, your skin gets more blood so you don’t age as quickly, even your sexual organs get more blood in the same way that Viagra works.
So ya, you’ll probably live longer, but you’ll also feel better. And what’s sustainable is joy and pleasure and freedom. And when you make these changes, most people find that they feel so much better so quickly, it re-frames the reason for change from fear of dying to joy of living and that’s what’s sustainable.
Blitzer: Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, you got a good shout out from President Clinton, now he’s on your diet, he’s doing the best he can, he’s very happy. I saw him in action eating some of those beans and vegetables, away from some of the other ‘fun foods,’ as we like to say. Let’s hope he lives a long and healthy life. Guys thanks very much for coming in.
